While working on an unrelated research project, I recently came across some data published by the Hartford Institute of Religion Research. Though the information was five years old, it still seemed highly relevant today. In essence, the data showed that non-denominational churches are now the second largest Protestant group in America. Only the Southern Baptist Convention is larger.
Here are some of the fascinating nuggets from that study:
- There are more than 12 million people who affiliate with non-denominational churches.
- The research found at least 35,000 non-denominational churches in America.
- Non-denominational churches are in 88% of the counties in the United States.
- Non-denominational churches are one of the top five largest religious groups in 48 of the 50 states and the District of Columbia.
In light of the growth of these churches, I conducted an informal Twitter poll and asked why people are moving to non-denominational congregations from churches affiliated with denominations. Here are the top eight responses in order. There is obvious overlap in some of the responses.
- Denominational churches have a negative reputation. Some respondents used the phrase “negative brand” to communicate this reason.
- Denominations are known more for what they are against than what they are for.
- There is too much infighting and politics in denominations.
- The denominational churches are too liberal. From what I can tell from these respondents, they are current and former members of mainline churches.
- There is a general waning of institutional loyalty in institutions such as denominations.
- Denominations have inefficient systems and organizations. They are too bureaucratic.
- Some of the respondents could see no perceived benefit to belonging to denominations.
- Denominations are not good stewards of their financial resources.
I plan on doing a second poll in the near future to see how respondents view denominations positively. In the meantime, let me hear from you.
Posted on April 22, 2015
With nearly 40 years of ministry experience, Thom Rainer has spent a lifetime committed to the growth and health of local churches across North America.
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191 Comments
I have the experience of both. Was born and raised SBC late 50’s – 60’s
Learned the basics of faith but saw way too much fighting and too much adherence to denomination tradition not backed up in scripture. Too many Pharisee’s.
Got married, we were members and served in four different non denominational churches, each grew like wildfire briefly then disintegrated due to lack of fiscal accountability and spiritual discipline.
Today I serve as a Deacon in a wonderful SBC church.
We are not perfect, no congregation is this side of heaven. In conclusion I do agree the name can be a turn off and understand why many new start ups leave it out.
I have gone to a certain denomination most of my life but they changed their name so no one would know that they belonged to a certain denomination.
I can tell you why I prefer to stay in Southern Baptist life, although I grew up in what was a “non-denominational” (Bible) church.
First, as a pastor I like having an association and state leaders to call for resources, advice, and help. The people at these various levels are passionate people who really want churches to reach their communities. Most of my interactions with people at these levels have been very positive (though, as is to be expected, not 100% positive).
Second, I like having a doctrine we can point to but is not dictated to us from above. Churches are free to preach what they will, but there is a structure of doctrine that is in place for people to already have a reference point when they join the church.
Third, and most importantly, I like the cooperative program. The structure for missions and disaster relief missions are in place already so that people know their designated gifts are being used efficiently in the field, that missionaries are being trained and sent, and that everybody has a part in it.
Non-denominational churches can be great, and I’d choose a non-denominational church over most other denominations, but these are the positives of our particular denomination as I see them.
Steve, good point on the doctrine, but, unfortunately, not every SBC church upholds the same doctrine in practice. So, just out of curiosity, what’s the doctrinal standard for the SBC and how are the churches held accountable to it?
The doctrinal standard is the 2000 Baptist Faith and Message. The SBC has the right to withdraw membership from churches that teach in contradiction to it.
The Baptist Faith & Message is the standard, although some churches prefer the 1963 to the 2000 version. Baptists are generally “non-creedal,” so the accountability thing has been a thorny issue in denominational politics.
Baptists believe in the autonomy of the local church, so the “higher” organizations are for cooperation and support rather than governing, except for those organizations that come from the cooperative efforts (like missions and seminaries).
As Ken said, the convention at different levels can (and have) withdrawn membership for churches who are teaching things that grossly violate the BF&M, but there is a lot of freedom.
The 2000 Baptist Faith and Message has been criticized as “too narrow”. In fact, it is quite broad in comparison with Baptist confessional statements of the past. It only has eighteen article. Past Baptist confessions has as many as forty or fifty. We often hear it said that Baptists don’t believe in creeds, but according to the writings of our Baptist forebears, that’s not strictly true.
The non-denominational churches that I know of are very good at teaching members what they believe. No presuppositions exist as to their beliefs so they make them very clear to members and guests alike. However, many baptist churches give little to no attention toward teaching the beliefs of the church to the members. Their is an assumption that everyone knows what we believe because we use the name baptist. This is not always the case. baptist church polity, theology and ministries vary as wider than one can imagine. Every church needs to have some method of teaching, every attender, the basic beliefs to which she holds. The dynamics of theology, systems and ministries within a given church, needs to be explained; not taken as a given simply because said church has employed the name baptist.
The other Mike above makes a good point: What is a nondenominational church? I’d ask a similar question: Should we group these churches as if they were a single denomination or movement, which is what we’re doing by grouping them as nondenominational churches?
I would answer “No,” although I know it’s easier to talk about them by doing so. But each of these churches, by not affiliating with an existing denomination, has become a denomination unto itself. A conservative count puts the number of U.S. Christian denominations at 217. Including each “nondenominational church” raises that to 35,217.
The Dictionary of Christianity in America (1990) gave the number of denominations worldwide at more than 22,000 (although that includes national denominations that are part of worldwide federations). So it could be said that there are more than 57,000 Protestant denominations in the world, and that doesn’t include nondenominational churches in countries outside the U.S.
I think the youth and young adults (my generation) don’t see the point or merit in affiliation and accountability that denominations provide. From what I’ve seen, we’re laissez faire church goers.
My wife and I did the opposite. We left the non-denominational churches and joined the United Methodist Church. We have been at this particular church 18 years. The church we belong to is wonderful. It was the best move we ever did.
+ 1 for Mike”s comment
Some also see denominational churches as being old with entrenched leadership. Sadly, the entrenched leadership often gets promoted to denominational leadership after running the church poorly, thus continuing the problem. This is like social promotion of a child who can’t read. Sometimes the denominational “home office” can/has run off people with their strange stances (hard right or hard left) when the church had no control over the stance. I think that if enough churches banded together, they could affect change in the headquarters. Non-denominational churches are generally younger/newer and have less entrenched leadership and might even have terms for leadership instead of appointments for life.
Now, there are denominational churches that are growing rapidly. Some of them do not go along with the denominational headquarters’ hard-right or hard-left position. Some of them never mention their denomination and are apolitical. They focus on the gospel every Sunday.
Thanks for this post!
I have been a member of a denominational church (SBC) for 36 years. God has blessed me do be able to serve in a variety of capacities including pastor, missionary and consultant. I have benefited from the cooperative efforts and cooperative giving. The cost of myntheological education was significantly reduced because of SBC churches supporting the work of Bible colleges and seminaries. I have been blessed by being a part of a denomination.
Having said all that, I agree with most of what your survey reports. While we some significant changes (like the selling of facilities to reduce costs and put more resources back on the mission field), there is still way too much bureaucracy, too much multiplication of services. Many of the training models on a local level are antiquated. If you suggest it is time to change, you are labeled a trouble-maker or a radical. We are told to work within the system to bring about change slowly. We are then left with the choice of using our time to fight institutional loyalists or use our time to reach our communities for Christ. Easy choice for most.
It is not that non-denominational churches do not cooperate or need resources, but they get them from smaller networks.
So, while many may not leave their denomination, they become disengaged. They just stop attending. There is change taking place in the SBC, but the pace of change is so slow that it is not keeping up with the pace of those leaving and becoming disengaged.
I am not a prophet, but I believe in 15-20 years, the number of non-denominational churches will surpass the number of SBC churches.
May I pose a question. What is a non-denominational church??? You have to believe something. When you don’t have an affiliation what do you cling to as your doctrine. Most of them say they have a set doctrine which in turn makes them denominational they just want to avoid the nametag. If you don’t have a set doctrine then the church is not sound doctrine. I would never attend a non-denominational church because I want to know what the church believes when I go there. When I attend a Baptist church, I know what they believe and what to expect when I get there. As for the fighting and politics, that is in every church. If you put a group of people in a building, conflict is going to arise. I think most people run to non-denominational churches because normally the commitment level is a lot lower than a denominational church. EVERY non-denominational church in our town offers only one service, which is very shallow at that. When they meet once a week, you just watch the show on stage, go home and live like the world, and go back and do it all over again the next week. I may sound cynical but it bothers me that the SBC Convention is shifting away from their heritage as Baptists. I am not ashamed of our name. I like it when it was called “The BAPTIST bookstore” instead of “Lifeway.” I like churches to be labeled as Baptist because we have nothing to be ashamed of. The man who baptized Jesus was named John the “Baptist” not John the “I have no clue what I believe”
A non-denominational church is one that has no hierarchy outside of the individual congregation, thus full congregational autonomy. The churches of Christ started out as non-denominational but over decades (and with some publication editors’ outsized influence) all started to act/seem very similar. Now, many people now believe them to be a denomination though there is less similarity between congregations.
That being said, every congregation is different. Baptists spread the spectrum from liberal (women ministers) to hard-line conservative where alcohol is still forbidden. Some churches of Christ use instruments and have women in the pulpit and others say that those who do will go to hell. Episcopal churches range from very liberal to Gospel-focused, non-political.
I think the categorization of a non-denominational church is less about whether there is a clear doctrinal statement and more about how a church chooses to cooperate and relate to other churches. Some non-denominational churches are very clear in what their doctrinal positions are but they choose not to cooperate through an official denominational network.
My church is non-denominational…but we are part of a Bible fellowship of 60+ churches dating back for 150 years… There is a very clear doctrinal statement, but from my personal experience, the church must focus on the Lord Jesus Christ, and be filled with His love as the most important part of their doctrine…
In my humble opinion, any church with doctrine that is not in alignment with the Bible, has the possibility of pleasing man, and not God…
Here is a link to check out,
http://www.newbeginningsbfc.org/our-denomination/
Blessings in Christ, bruce
Thank you for clearing that up so I did not have to.
You are so correct. If your doctrine is not aligned with the gospel in the bible then it’s not a true church. I’m COGIC and we are looked down upon as a denomination but we are a bible teaching and preaching the gospel church. Of course we are human and mistakes are made but forgiveness is asked and is forgiven.
You are right well sai
I am a member of the churches of Christ who really enjoys this blog and though many of our congregations are in complete unity in matters of doctrine that is not the result of becoming a denomination but following the same standard (i.e. the Bible). This can be said because the churches of Christ have no earthly headquarters, not governing body outside the local congregation, and do not answer to other congregations. We have commonality with other congregations because we arrive at the same Biblical conclusions.
Amen!!
I must ask, do you worship the Christ of the Bible or the creed of the “Baptist Faith and Message”? All denom churches where I have worshipped and served spent more time reiterating why they were different and therefore better than the church down the street. People are sick of having their laundry list of sins pointed out at the door. They want to be loved, and know that God cars and Jeuss is their hope. Our church teaches that Salvation isn’t chea. It cost Jesus everything and it requires our surrender to His Lordship. Wr also have a vibrant discipleship program reaulting in ⅓ of the congregation serving on the ministry team. As to missions, our one church gave over $6.1 M to missions, and conducted 1200 local outreach events and over 200 national and Intl mission projects last yr alone. Cling to the cronyism of Denominationalism. I will cling to the risen living conquering freeing empowering Christ of the Bible.
Perhaps you should learn more of the denominations you criticize before you post such sanctimonious comments.
Ken,
I am in total agreement with you. No one should be making disparaging remarks on any sect without investigating and researching before forming an opinion. That doesn’t mean you receive your information from someone who has left their church and are disgruntled I was born and raised as a Roman Catholic. I have attended Catholic schools even through college. I minored in theology, not just Catholicism or Christianity. I’ve have been in a Bible study group since I was 20, I’m 53 now. People assume that because you’re a part of a denominational church that your faith isn’t Bible based. Fr. Paul during his Homily this weekend told us that BIBLE is an acronym and it stands for Basic Information Before Leaving Earth. Fundamentally, that is what the Bible does for us, denmo or not. Catholics are also evangelical, in the respect that we want people to know the word of God and Jesus Christ has died for our sins. We don’t try to “recruit” people for Catholicism. We do have a program called RCIA that welcomes anyone to learn about the Catholic faith. If you join one, you are NOT required to be baptized in the church if you decide Catholicism is not the path you want to take for your spirituality. You can leave at any time without pressure to stay. I’ve been a sponsor in that program for a long time and sometimes people will be a part of this community for a couple of years before they make a decision one way or another. When someone decides that being Catholic is not for them, we say God Bless and we hope you will find your path to God. I’m not saying that the Catholic Church doesn’t have any problems, I’m not naive. But I doubt that any church non or denom, doesn’t have problems amongst their congregations. There is no clear cut answer to this debate. As long as you find God and a sense of peace, that’s all that should matter.
God Bless!
Dear Donna, thank you for stating exactly what I want to say. I’m a Catholic too and very content and thankful to be one. I firmly believe in God, Jesus and the Virgin Mary, I’m a sinner, who asks for forgiveness on my own and then through confession; I believe in the Bible and think there is another life for us close to God; I believe in Jesus coming to earth to died in the cross for our sins but I also believe we should be good Christians and ask for forgiveness every time we sin. By repenting, we will reach the eternal glory.
I attend a non-denominational church. And personally speaking there is no lower level of commitment than any other church that I have ever been to. If anything there are stronger Christians who attend my church than most places I have been. People who seek truth and Gods will in all walks of their lives. That being said I went to a non denominational church because of two reasons.
One that in many other denominations the church adds rules to the bible. More guidelines, and as we can see throughout history that is exactly what the Pharisees did. Our rules should be set in the bible and the bible alone how God has called us to live through the scripture. Not any sort of extra rules. And for doctrine we follow the bible. That’s it. People might have different views, but that is when we seek “wise council” if you will. Discuss is and seek the truth!
The second reason was because in 1 Corinthians Paul writes about not claiming to be of Paul or apollos or Cephas or even Christ. What we shall claim is that we are Christian. We believe in Christ, but the divisions in the church and claiming to be from different lines though essentially are the same, they create division. I’m not saying that they have to, but to a nob-believer they could create a stumbling block. In essence though we all worship the same God. And every believe is of the body of Christ. The body of Christ is not in a building, but includes every person who is a believer in Christ.
I’ve been to more than one non-denominational church. Two of them were Brooklyn Tabernacle, and The Church of the Highlands. Frankly, I’ve never been around folks who knew what they believed as much as the members of those two churches.
Conversely, I’ve yet to meet a Baptist church member who could tell me why you have to be baptized to join a Baptist church. And that includes deacons assembled, Sunday School teachers assembled, and even on one occasion, a seminary professor.
And your observation about the level of commitment surely does not apply in Alabama. In the 6 big population centers in the state, attendance among Baptists runs 33.28% of membership (but remember attendance includes visitors, infants, etc), whereas it’s 53.97% among other reporting denominations.
Perhaps the real reason people are going to non-denominational churches is that they’re the ones who are getting the job done today, as contrasted with denominations whose churches don’t teach the people what they believe.
I am a pastor of a non-denominational Baptist church in the Northeast. I say that I am Christian with a capital “C” and a baptist with a little “b”. I will die for the truth of God’s Word. The name Baptist is not in the Bible. I like it, but I will not die for it. Being part of a denomination or not is not about commitment or spirituality, it is about governance.
Names are about meaning. I believe the Baptist name has become so broad in meaning that it is almost meaningless. I wish it wasn’t so, but I am describing the reality, not my desires.
Just to clear up your question about baptism, we believe that you need to be baptized to join a church because church membership is a group of people with similar beliefs promising to follow and obey Christ together. Baptism is a public statement to others that you are following Christ. If you are not willing to obey Christ (baptism), then you are not ready to promise to follow Christ with others (membership).
If I may add something here the name John the Baptist does not mean that he was a baptist. The word baptist means baptizer he was John the baptizer. He baptized people into repentance
After asking for forgiveness we are to Go and sin no morr
When you claim that people know what “Baptists” believe just by the name, what brand of Baptist are your referring to? The Baptist World Alliance lists 211 different Baptist denominations and that doesn’t even include Southern Baptists or the other unaffiliated splinter groups that pop up regularly.
I’m bothered by people who have more loyalty to their denomination than their Savior. I have no problem with denominations, I just choose not to be part of one. It is NOT biblically mandated nor do I find it particularly beneficial.
John the Baptist was known for his actions, not his denominational ties (he was considered a trouble-maker by the Jewish religious majority). People knew what he believed because he told them, not because he wore a t-shirt, hung out with a crowd, or had a nice logo on a sign.
You make a valid point. Non-denominational churches often end up becoming mini-denominations in and of themselves.
Good points/questions. Most non-denominational churches follow the beliefs of the pastor and follow him without question. In other words, it is a pastor dominated church.
I don’t believe so.. I just recently came back to the faith after a long time of self searching and trying to figure out what I truly believe. I found this non-denominational church, Grassroots in Rockford, IL (grassrootsrockford.com) and they are the most genuine believers I have ever met. I can tell the Lord is with them. There’s a genuine warmth of Christ’s love that radiates in them.. and they’re actively involved with the local community. They challenge each other in Christ and they don’t hang their lives on the words of the Pastor. The Pastor gives a message, but challenges us to look at the same scriptures to find the truth for ourselves. He even repeatedly says not to just take his word for it.
I’ve never met a more open and humble pastor than Pastor Dan Hinz. I’m really glad I found this church because I was a part of AoG since birth and I loved it so much, but there was a time in my church life where I was 18 years old, a youth leader, and there was this cute male youth leader that caught my eye (and obliviously I caught his) We dated and ended up, due to hormones and the struggle of abstinence, giving in and doing things we shouldn’t have. He wanted to just throw it under the rug, but I couldn’t live with myself. (especially when the youth pastor later asked me if I could handle the middle sschool girls’ lesson on purity)
I confronted him privately and told him that I couldn’t keep this a secret any longer and that I had to tell the youth pastor. My conscience was weighing heavily on me. It got so bad I felt sick and almost threw up. He broke up with me over it and told me he’d deny it if they asked him. I gathered my courage and told my youth pastor all that had gone on, and I ended up also stepping down as a leader because I couldn’t do it. If I’m struggling to control myself, I’m not a suitable leader.. my youth pastor was more mad at the fact I took responsibility and decided to step down.. and even more so mad when he denied it, she then thought I was lying because I just wanted to shirk my duties… It left me sick and broken inside hearing this.
It didnt take long before rumors had spread and the girls who once looked up to me as their big sister now looked at me with utter disgust and hatred.. D:
Some time had passed since then and I had gotten super sick and nearly died.. and my mom kept saying that the fact I wasn’t getting better was because i didn’t have enough faith.. :/ not knowing it was because I was extremely malnourished due to a nasty stomach virus that left me unable to eat for a week and I became paranoid of eating because I felt that i’d just puke it up.. it ended up getting so bad that I didn’t eat for 2 months and barely drank any water. I wanted to die. I didn’t feel loved and the church couldn’t have given two craps about me.. and they were barking at me that God was punishing me for not attending this class i signed up for.. (it was a believers class that focused on teachings by joel olsteen… *shudders*) There was just so much hostility..
I moved out of state to IL (from MI), met my husband of 3 years now, and we both attended an AoG church out here and it was great at first, then it slowly started getting more and more about how many people we could get in the doors and making them feel comfortable (church became more of a entertainment than a challenging message). But the real blow was when we had a period of transition and going through a tough time financially.. the church revolked our membership because we couldnt always make tithe regularly… and our bible study group disowned us.. That was the last straw for us.. and our hearts were bitter and hardened for 3 years after that..
Then one day the card that read “For those who have given up on church, but not on God.” fell out of our sunday paper and we both looked at it and smiled. It was for Grassroots. And let me tell you, I love this church. Its free of all the religious nonsense some demoninational churches can have and its solely about the bible, loving God and loving your neighbor as your self. Sermons are challenging and not PC. I love it so much and I’m thankful every day God brought this body of believers to my attention. 😀
Amen! If I were asked what I would be if not a Southern Baptist, I would tell them I would be ashamed. That is bases on what I believe.
If I may add something here the name John the Baptist does not mean that he was a baptist. The word baptist means baptizer he was John the baptizer. He baptized people into repentance
Well said, Mike!! I was raised with very strict beliefs thru the Assemblies of God. I’m 51 years old and have no intentions or desire to change what I feel is right for me. I’ve watched as our churchs have relaxed their morals concerning God, teach instead of preach & it scares me. I want my children and grandchildren to know, although God forgives sin, God expects us to live by certain rules; The Ten Commandments. If you understand the commandments & abide by these, you will certainly inherit the Kingdom of God.
I do not think a Christian, one that knows right from wrong, should knowingly do things that is not Godly & expect to enter heaven. My 26 year old son, is non-denominational & doesn’t seem to have a clue where he stands in his beliefs. It concerns me, as he appears to constantly be in conflict with his Christianity. It’s so simple, live righteous, love the Lord & obey his commandments…simple!! I don’t know about these churches nowadays but, it appears as if people think they can make their own rules to suit their lifestyle & think, if they read the BIBLE & attend church, boom, “heavenbound I am”!!
You didn’t mention anything about Jesus anywhere. The only key to heaven. I came from a very conservative denominational church. Their focus was a lot more on their rules and regulations then Jesus Christ. There was a lot of fighting and conflict about rules? Nobody was concerned about a personal relationship with Jesus Christ.
It is very sad when satan has the victory like that.
Just so I’m clear I am not in favor of the denominational churches.
Our family actually did just that recently, mostly because of politics and power groups, but also spiritual immaturity within the leadership positions and no one willing to confront it.
You may find that when you have been in the non-denominational Church for a while, that they have problems too.
I am not particularly a fan of non-denominational churches. I converted to the Catholic Church from Lutheran. Although the two churches are said to be similar and liturgically, they may be. But I have a completely different feeling in the Catholic Church than I did in the Lutheran Church. I think that the environment is the main reason. In the Lutheran Church, there was high pressure to be involved and people were always in others’ personal business, and gossipy. In the Catholic Church, it is usually emphasized to do unto others. It is said in so many different ways. As an example, if the seven deadly sins are brought up, we as Catholics are told to look at actions and values, and see if any of the seven deadly sins fall into those.
A friend of mine was raised Lutheran, and I went to church with her. When I went to church with her and her family, I saw a side that I was not too impressed by. Everyone in that church was bigoted and arrogant about their beliefs being superior. I don’t know if every single Lutheran Church does this, but my friend’s church believed that because they were forgiven of their sins because Jesus died for their sins, it did not matter if they sinned or not, or how they treated people. And this showed in pretty much the whole congregations’ behavior. They made me feel inferior, and I was feeling unhappy and even stressed after going to that church.
I probably went off on a tangent, but back to non-denominational churches. My friend who was Lutheran now goes to a non-denominational church, and she is always asking me if I want to go. I always tell her know, and she always sounds surprised. Given my impression of my friend and what I have seen where her past church behavior stood, I think that she chose the non-denominational churches because she appears to not stay in one church for very long. She goes where the trend appears to be-which it is now mega churches. For all I know, she will eventually grow tired of that church and go somewhere else.
Sounds like you are judging your friend. In Catholic churches isn’t that considered a no no? Or is that the other religion that follows that rule? Maybe your friend just has not yet felt truly connected to a church yet & she is testing the waters till she finds the right fit? Kinda like the way you moved into the catholic church from lutheran? Don’t be the pot calling the kettle black. just be happy your friend is trying to find peace in a church, find god & have a relationship with him. Far too many people don’t even attend church. I’d say she has 1 leg up on them.
great
I call them “Feel Good ” Churches…. whatever feels good ….Many people refer to it as Catholic Guilt… The Catholic Faith is not for the weak, it is not for people that do not care for authority or rules handed down by Our Lord to Peter whom he asked to build his Church upon this Rock… also asked his Apostles at the Last Supper as they broke bread together ” DO THIS IN MEMORY OF ME ” and you will forever have life, meaning accepting the Lord at Communion , with his Body and Blood, that we Catholics believe is in the host. How wonderful….
I was invited to be “Saved” so many times in my 68 years , my answer has always been, and always will be ” I was Never Lost my friend”, I have adored my Faith…. I feel so blessed that I am able to share in this most wonderful gift of the most Beautiful Faith on earth and that would be the Catholic Faith… these are my opinions only… Whatever you chose to believe is your belief , I am not anyones judge, I am grateful and Blessed …. xoxo
In response to Judy, maybe its time for you to pray before you speak. You said some flat out wrong things in a very unkind manner. Perhaps you should spend more time with adults who were molested by priests and learn the real history of the Catholic Church. Maybe you need to learn the real history of the idol worshiping Catholic Church that hides the 7 deadly sins under it’s cloak of being the first church – which its not. Maybe you are someone who is not even Catholic but found your way here to cause discord. I don’t know. What I know is that the Catholic Church was not the first church. The Catholic Church has a history of lying and is the prime example of how long false marketing claims are believed by the ignorant. I am thankful for non-denominaltional churches and that they do not squeeze the life out of people seeking fellowship with other Christians. Whoever you are, I have prayed for you to learn to love. If you only love those who are Catholic, if you are not telling the truth about the horrors of the Catholic church, then you are living a lie that hurts all those around you all the way into the internet to people that don’t even want to get involved in the battle – but I will for the sake of innocent people who stumble across this page.
Hi Ellen,
I was born, raised and had Catholic education through college. I’m glad to hear that you have a good experience in your Catholic Church. But I want to tell you from a personal experience that some parishes are just as bad as the Lutheran churche you described. I was very involved with parish activities in my last parish from 1990-2010. I was in the choir, woman’s bible study group, RICA and the Lifeteen Program as a youth minister. However, politics ran amuck. If Monsignor liked you, things were great. If you weren’t in “good standing” with him, things could be miserable. Don’t even get me started on gossip. It was like the people in an office by the water cooler. One gentleman in the choir was “rumored” to having an affair with one of the women in the choir. Things got so ugly that they left the parish. I don’t know if there was any truth to it and it’s none of my business. My own personal experience in 2010 was not good. I was diagnosed with a brain tumor and needed surgery. I announced in every group I was a part of, that I needed to take a temporary sabbatical and why. Everyone knew I was single, lived alone and did not have any family to help take care of me. Not one person ever called to see how I was, did I need anything, etc. As a matter of fact, none of these good “Catholics” don’t know if I died from brain cancer. I couldn’t even get communion for the home bound. I left my entire faith which was not an easy decision to make. Being Catholic was not just my religion, it was a part of my identity. About 9 months after my surgery, I was relocated to Florida, however, I was so hurt and angry I didn’t go back to church until Holy Thursday of this year (2016). The priest who gave the Homily was inspiring. I actually had hope. After the Mass was over I approached him and asked if he could help me with spiritual guidance. I’ve been meeting with him twice a month. I’m not even close to the place of peace that I had known all my life but I am trying. I have attended Mass every Sunday since Easter. I’m not willing at this point to jump in and join activities again but I’m a work in progress right now. Just going to Church on Sunday is about all I can handle now. With God’s grace and mercy, I hope to be in that peaceful state I was in nearly 11 years ago. I ask the Holy Spirit every day to give me the strength I need to let go of the hurt and anger that I have been carrying in my heart. It’s sad to think that age 31 I was going through a discernment to become a nun and age 53 I trying to find God again. God Bless.
I don’t know if you will see this, and I realize your post is a bit dated, but I just wanted to send a kind word your way. I hope you are doing well; both from a health standpoint and in your life generally. What you have experienced is major, and the lack of support you received from individuals you believed to be your friends, and from your church in general is unfortunate. I went through a similar situation, and I know it brought me closer to God’; regardless of whether I identify as Catholic, Anglican, Lutheran, Baptist, Non-Denominational, etc, there are a handful of core beliefs that tie us together….hang on to those, and know that God has your back. I wish you only the best. Peace.
Dear Sweet Ellen, God hasn’t left you, he has always been with you and remains … so sorry first and foremost for the horrible disease that you were diagnosed with and I am hoping that everything is ok now…. I will remember you, not that this means anything, I am no one but I do care….
Please let your heart open to returning to the Faith that you grew up knowing in your heart that it was real… I think when I hear stories such as these, I think to myself, there have been times for some reason or another, I have not cared for a particular Priest or a Church ( not the Faith) but I have always beleived as we were taught if true beleivers, and that is, we are only in a buliding, we are not there for the people, the Priest or how anyone treats us… we are there for the Body and Blood of Our Lord, Jesus Christ and the Holy Sacrement of the Mass…… since the beginning of time, Mass has been held underground for many countries that practice Communism etc. but Mass was still held and Communion distributed, whether it be a makeshift altar on rock, or in a shack, it is the Mass that we go to hear and I don’t know about you, I feel the Rosary is a gift to me, without it and Mary, we have no hope… Jesus so loved his Mother and he listens to her when she asks for favors when interceding for us, and there are so many that have forgotten her…. God loved her so, that he asked her to be the Mother of Jesus, how can anyone deny the importance of Mary…
When she once appeared many years ago which I am sure you know… she said ” There will not be world Peace until everyone says the rosary.”
God Bless you and I pray Ellen that you have continued good health and your find your way to true Peace…
I care
xoxo
Hi Donna, I loved reading your post. I hope you fell better after the surgery. Unfortunately, people will remain people of the earth. Going to church has become a time to socialize instead of worship. We, who seek and find the love and grace of God should remind ourselves to not worry about other’s reasons of church going, but stay focused on the truth and worship of our Lord, Jesus Christ. If we want others to understand why we worship God the way we do we have to transform and live a life according to Christ’s teachings that He passed down through the apostles’ writings and traditions. May God bless you and continue to guide you to His truth and salvation!
Amin!
As someone who moved from the Evangelical Church to the Catholic Church, (then back–though I attend both a non-denom AND a Lutheran Church now), I had the opposite experience and found all the same issues in the Catholic Church that were present in the Protestant church. I can’t tell you how many people I worship with weekly who are former Catholics because they were longing for probably what your friend is now searching for. I have learned many things from all the church bodies I have been a part of, but there’s something beautiful about the simplicity found in most non-denom churches. Incidentally, our Lutheran Church is very evangelical and is one of the warmest congregations I have ever been a part of. My husband and I have spent approx. 10 years in the Lutheran Church-Missouri Synod, and it has been a beautiful experience in both the congregations we were members of. There mission is outlined above and they have planted 2 additional churches in our area of Indianapolis that are exploding in growth. I have also been to a number of denominations (Catholic AND Protestant) that are hateful and elitist. No group is immune to the sin of arrogance and pride, and I believe that has a lot to do with the leadership as well. Blessings on you, and as long as we make it our goal to live the Gospel an know Christ more every single day, the rest moot.
People listen, I am a man that sees to truth with the church, today. God, called all of us to be unified in the faith. He didn’t call us to be divided, among each other. For we all are God’s body. So, how can God be divided? The church today has let Satan manipulate the church, with this foolish separation of itself, when it comes to denominations of a church. God didn’t gather his house into separate groups. In God’s eyes, there is no such thing. So, I encourage all of you that’s being manipulated by the division of the evil one, to wake up from your slumber in and unify yourselves, in the faith, as God intended it.
I agree Conrad… in fact, if you look up the word “denomination” it has the connotation of identifying by means of differences (i.e., $1 bill, $5 bill, $20 bill, and $100 bill are different denominations and some are more valued than others). After 50 years of “churches” and “denominations” and “deacon/elder ‘good ole boys club'” operations, we no longer attend institutional churches as we fellowship with a body of former church leaders and members from a few different denominations in our homes. What a blessing!
You converted from one church to another, while I converted to Christ, and the church is his body.
No man comes to the father but through faith in Christ.
There’s no perfect church, as it’s made up of sinners, separated from God by sin. But there are churches that model themselves by God’s word to us. We need to be with other like minded faith filled believers in order to grow in faith.
Russ—very well said. I wish those model churches were easy to find. I’ve been praying for God to lead me to a model church.
Let’s all go to church and focus on God and not at those surrounding us.
We left the catholic church due to the thousands of boys being molested by their priests and the catholic church moves them to other parishes and they do not go to jail. The church is based on many false premises; they even changed the 2nd commandment because they due bow down and worship idols, like Mary. The bible clearly says bow to no man and Mary bowed to God, she married and had other children; much false prophecy in that church. Lutheran not much better. We left them both.
I find your comment very interesting. I was born and raised as a catholic and then went to the Lutheran church for about 2 years. The big reason I disliked the Catholic Church is bc they seemed to be arrogant and superior. But I’d agree, at the Lutheran church it still seemed that way but to a much lesser degree. I’ve found myself as a nondenominational now bc of these experiences.
I am sorry to hear you had a very bad experience at the Lutheran Church. Jesus died on the cross for every living souls sin.
However believers are suppose to act respectfully when interacting with others.
The Catholic church doesn’t have a good take on the Bible or Jesus Christ.
Jesus did say to knock and the door will be open to you, God willing you will find a Bible Teaching Church.
I was wondering the same thing, because no religious group or denomination or non-denomination are perfect. Same thing goes on just different groups of people.
I need advice on baptism at 40 im a widow and marriage. Im upset confused I dont understand why the pastor at my church was so mean
Megan, don’t give up on your Faith due to one man, go to another Catholic Chruch, I am sure you will find one you love…. as I said before …. The priest and the building are not the true meaning of why we go to Mass….
Good Luck and God Bless
xoxo
I believe that because no matter how perfect you try to be nobody is
Cilly, we are ALL sinners, and that is why we have Church and our Faith..
It amuses me when I hear someone say that Catholics are hypocrites , that we attend Mass and then sin the same day…
That is part of the Faith, we go to Mass to Thank God for our Blessing, to ask for foregiveness, to recieve his precious Body and Blood and to admit that we are sinners and hypocrites, that is why we are there for goodness sake…. No one but Our Lord is perfect, we are just trying so hard to follow in his divine footsteps …
God Bless
xoxo
so judy, what you are saying that it is ok to sin and be a hypocrite as long as you go to church and ask for forgiveness . that isn’t the way it works. you are supposed to walk with Christ, love your neighbor, and conduct yourself in a manner worthy of Gods love….that is faith.
Catholics worship idols such as Mother Mary she is to be remembered not worship or prayed to that is so let for GOD THE FATHER GOD THE SON AND GOD THE HOLY SPIRIT
No church is perfect. We are all human and we are all different. Not every church will appeal to you, but it doesn’t mean you should speak negatively on a specific church. I was raised as a Catholic. I went to Catholic schools my whole life, but once I got to eighth grade, I felt as if the Catholic Church didn’t fill my needs. I started attending a non-denominational church with my father, and that need was definitely refilled. My father recently passed and I decided to get baptized last year for him and most importantly myself. Just because it doesn’t appeal to you and your needs, doesn’t mean it won’t appeal to others. (:
I agree with you.
I was raised in a Church of Christ and found myself later attending a non-denominational church. At first it was great and I loved the messages but the longer I attended the more it became clear that our worldly beliefs were being included in the the messages.
People were being told that they would be able to bless liquids at home themselves for communion if they believed in their heart a freshly poured glass of water was blessed,that it was.
That even though couples who committed adultery were divorced and the bible tells us in Matthew it is commanded by God that we not remarry, that despite Gods biblical teachings, we were free to remarry because God would want us happy.
Even went as far as saying that the Bible should be read but in the end God’s grace would save us despite any wrongful life we live so that the bible was more for guidelines.
Even though some messages were moving and the people very friendly, I realized I am not a worldly woman, Ive been baptized and am now of God. He tells us right from wrong in the bible and what it commanded by Him. We as humans may fall and make mistakes but not knowingly sin because HE will forgive us anyway. Thats cheap grace and I find His sacrifice so intimate and indescribably humbling because of His love for us that the very least we could do as His children is strive to follow his word to the very best of our abilities and pray to God that when we fail, He guide us to do it better than before.
I dont judge but pray for all my brothers and sisters in Christ that we may all recognize His love for us.
Also, even though I see where you are getting at, my nonden church actually says not to be worldly and to not do things based off of what everyone else does. It also says that, like the Bible says, it’s better to not get married as long as you don’t fall into sin yet ppl everywhere still do it including denominations like Catholic though they are very strict in their teachings. Basically what I think pastors mean when they say getting remarried is okay isn’t saying don’t take God’s word but in a way that you’ve already spiritually added another person besides God into the bunch and that if you are going to fall into sin after divorce, it would in fact be better to remarry than do what God told you not to do in your first marriage.
Nah. Honestly, I have grown up in a Pentecostal and Non-denominational church and I agree mostly with numbers 2, 5, and 7. But I love non-denominational most because it isn’t against everything in the freaking world. I also believe that it teaches the right ways. I’ve been going to a Methodist church to try it out and I felt uncomfortable because I disagreed with everything and felt it was too judgemental so I think even though everything has its problems, nondem is the best way to go.
All churches are perfect until YOU go there
Amen!
I have always been a non-denominational Christian so I think I can give some insight on Non-Denominational churches.
To Mike (below), we in fact do have a “set of beliefs”. It is very simple. We believe in the trinity; the Father, Son and Holy Spirit. We believe in the virgin Mary and that Jesus Christ died for our sins. We believe in the personal relationship between each individual on this earth and our Father. We confess our sins through prayer and also ask for forgiveness through prayer to our Father. We believe that the Lord is with us every minute of every day and we can have conversation with him at any time. We read & learn from the bible and take it word for word. Nothing more, nothing less.
For Sunday School, we open with worship service then we have an ongoing study of a book from the bible (for example; lets say we started to learn from the Gospel according to Matthew in January.. We will continue reading/learning from this chapter each Sunday until we finish.) & we have a pastor that preaches a sermon afterward. When you spend 45 minutes to an hour on one chapter of a book and actually focus, your understanding grows deeper and deeper. We also have weekly classes and many groups to become a part of.
I can’t speak from experience but from what I have learned when observing people in my life is that religion in some of the denominational churches seem to add a lot of pressure on people and their faith & the practices are very tedious & in-genuine. There are also a lot of rules… It seems that it isn’t as much of a personal experience between you and God that you feel in your heart & soul.. It is more like a practiced routine.. like brushing your teeth because you HAVE to.. This is everything that the Trinity is not. Although this may not be why everyone leaves denominational churches that seems to be why the people I know have converted.
Instead of keeping track of what is exactly right and wrong, non denominational churches to follow these two rules.; (copied offline)
Matthew 22:37-40 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. This is the first and great commandment. And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.
If what you are doing is not honoring these two rules then how can you get confused or question what is right or wrong, you know?
& to the previous writer.. no, we should not sin and we should not continue to sin if we know that what we are doing is sin. This is all explained in numerous books in the Bible if not all. But, we are HUMAN BEINGS! We are not God. We are imperfect. We all sin & it should NEVER be okay to sin. The truth is that we all do it no matter what religion you claim to be. The difference is if we recognize it as sin or not and ask our Father for forgiveness.
“If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.” 1 John 1:8-10.
What is even more sad to me is when people pass judgement on a church based on the congregation. This is different than leaving because of the actual practices of the church.. If you leave the Lutheran church because of a friend who makes mistakes then you are not passing good judgement on the church you are attending.. Our relationship with God should be a personal experience.. it isn’t you, your friend and God. Just you and God and Her and God.
Once again, I have never had a denomination but most controversial conversation on “religion” or “denomination” stems from things created from man.. not things of the Word, our book of life.
I hope this helps!
NICE! God bless you & thanks, your message was pleasantly well written.
Christine I couldn’t have written that any better. Very well stated and accurate..
This was truly helpful to me. I am truly considering converting to a non denomination church and this helped me feel good about making this decision. Thanks.
I truly believe when we stand before Christ it’s not going to be about non or denon, but about a personal relationship with him.
AMEN!
Well said!
AMEN!!! So well said, Christine. This is what I have experienced in every non-denominational Christian church I’ve visited and why I’m trying to bring my family along with me.
Well said. I’m also a member of a non denonminational church and I love my church family. I feel that no one should judge anyone about where they attend to serve The Lord and our heavenly father it’s what’s in your heart and soul. As long as you are a child of God your good with me! ?
Touche. I was baptized Catholic. At the end of service, i could not remember what is it was abt. i switched to non and i walk away with an understanding and knowledge. i enjoyed the lesson i’ve learned. i have since moved away from my church of choice, but the sermons are available after each week on-line to watch. Now my family enjoys church from our home. We always a week behind, but i’m sure the Lord will forgive us.
Well said. I could not say it any better.
I Love the way you broke it down. Like you said the Bible don’t lie, neither does God!
Wow! I really liked what you wrote here! It really helped me and I think your church sounds like the place for me 🙂 God bless!
You have a very nice outlook! Thanks for sharing. However, if you believe in the Bible, nothing more, nothing less… why do you put up with the “trinity” teaching. It is not Biblical. Most churches teach the Trinity meaning God and Jesus and the holy spirit are all one in the same. When the Bible says they are “as one”, it means they are in agreement with one another, not that they are actually the same entity. Jesus said many many times that he was sent by his Father, taught by his Father – proof that he is not The Father. The Bible even talks about Jesus being alongside his Father helping him with the creation of mankind and the earth and all in it.
The word “trinity” doesn’t even exist in the Bible. Saying that Jesus is also God is disrespecting God the Almighty!
When Moses asked God what his name was in Exodus he said: “I am who I am.” He said further, “Thus you shall say to the Israelites, ‘I am has sent me to you.” In John 8:56-59 Jesus claimed he knew Abraham who had lived long before him. When the pharisees asked how he could have known him he said ” ‘I tell you the truth,’ Jesus answered, ‘before Abraham was born, I am!’ The pharisees erupted with anger because Jesus was claiming one of the names of God.
When you look at nature you see the trinity. We, as humans, are Body, Soul, Spirit. We are 3 parts but one. H2O can be three parts but it is one…. there are many examples of this.
I guess others may see this differently. This is how I see it and this is some of what I base my belief in the Trinity on.
Jesus said: “I and the Father are One.” and, ” If you have seen me, you have seen the Father.”
I 100% agree with everything you said! I’m also glad you provided bible proof so it is backed up. Thank you for your amazing and true comment.
For five years I have been doing research on congregational behavior in American Churches and what is happening to Christianity in America. The Barna Group in California dedicates a great deal of time doing Christian research and they have much documented information on their website.
There is a book titled Revolution, written by George Barna, which gives details about what is happening to the church, denominational or other.
Jim and Casper go to Church is another book on the state of the American Church. Jim Henderson is a former pastor and Matt Casper is an atheist. Together they tour the United States visiting various churches, discussing their individual points of view, and then documenting it in their book. Both books, Revolution and Jim and Casper Go To Church are loaded with a world of information about what is happening to Christianity and are recommended reading.
However, basically what is happening to the church boils down to one thing–humanity’s disregard for the moral code of God as it is defined in the Bible, in favor of selfish indulgence that pleases the senses and will not interfere with the individual’s quest for heaven. There is a “watering down” of God’s declared justice and a dedicated effort to cause believers to focus on the love of God without personal sacrifice or accountability to His grace–the death of His Son.
From now until the Lord’s return we will continue to see an exodus from churches regardless of affiliation because He is separating the sheep (true believers and worshipers) from the goats (those who ignore His statues but still want to see heaven).
Christianity today has the appearance of massive spaghetti bowl overpasses in large cities where people are moving around like ants trying to get to their final destination. The conscience of a true Christian is troubled when they hear words from the pulpit that they think deviates from Scripture. They get scared that they will become the “elect that got deceived” as the Scripture mentions and then they move on, looking for a church with Biblical truth flowing from the pulpit.
I am here to tell you that it is difficult to find such a church today. I grew up in a small Southern Baptist Church but because of the hypocritical behavior I experienced first hand, I changed to non-denominational worship while in my thirties. For about 15 years things went well and I never found a reason to question the Word coming from the pulpit. However, I have become a seasoned student of the Bible and in the last eight years I have seen an unbelievable change in many ND churches. About a year ago I moved to a town with several churches and 31000 residents. In the year I have been here, I have attended seven different D and ND churches looking for a Bible teaching church and haven’t yet found one. I am seeking a solution and will probably find one in the kind of church discussed in George Barna’s book, Revolution.
As a seasoned believer, I encourage every believer seeking the true gospel to know what the Bible says and to listen carefully to those who teach. Christians have an enemy whose sole purpose is to distract them from the Christ that saves souls. Be careful and on your guard.
Maybe you should check into The Seventh Day Adventist religion who study and believe in all of the King James Bible. Give it a try, it won’t hurt you.
Sadly to say many religions, non denominational and denominational don’t truly understand the bible. Some don’t want to know certain things in the bible because it would interfere with their worldly things they enjoy.
That church doesn’t certainly ‘study and believe in all of the King James Bible’. It is written,One man esteems one day as more important. Another esteems all days alike…..He who observes the day, to the Lord he observesit, and he who does not, to the Lord he does not….But you, why do you judge your brother?Let no man therefore judge you in eating…drinking…or in regard to a feast day, or sabbath day. Unfortunately, the name of the church is itself a standing rebuke to those who regard all days alike, or those who assemble themselves for worship, regardless of the day. Also, to judge that, ‘many religions…..don’t truly understand the Bible’ is clearly, a fruit of that same tree.
Bill, I would like to say that I am a proud member of the SDA church. I have been my whole life, the things you stated I don’t agree with as it pertains to judging people. We do not judge anyone for the way they worship. All of our jobs is to study the bible and point out error from bible truth. It sounds to me that you are the one judging because someone asked what church should they seek, and another person recommends the SDA church and you respond with negativity. Now for everyone that has been reading these comments, all of the comments were beautiful and loving until the SDA churc was mentioned. I am sure you have never attended a SDA church, so why put it down if you truly don’t know what my church stands for.
Dman, you sound quite bitter. The initial post in this thread was of someone who has been switching between D and ND churches, in search of biblical truth, and came to an honest conclusion that such a church is currently rare. Someone put forward the SDA church, claiming that they are who ‘study and believe in all of the King James Bible’. I gave a quote from the same bible to illustrate the untruthfulness of that statement. There are more other untruthful claims made by the institution, for instance, that they are the ‘only true church’ or the ‘remnant church’. Yet, the church itself was not founded on truth. Setting a date for the return of Christ (22 Oct 1844), and when the day came and passed, claiming that Christ was switching apartments in heaven, what the church calls ‘Investigative Judgement’ in its 27 or 28 or 29 Fundamental Beliefs – the number keeps changing – , is not just unbiblical, but also anti-biblical; sadly, the foundational doctrine upon which this church was started. It is written, ‘Christ having come as a high priest of the coming good things, through His own blood, entered in once for all into the holiest of places, having obtained eternal redemption, and when he had offered one sacrifice for sins forever, sat down on the right hand of God, till His enemies are made the footstool of His feet.’ God loved the world, such that He sent His son, anyone who would believe, would not perish, instead, would attain life with no end. Blessings.
After asking for forgiveness we are to Go and sin no morr
The Seventh Day Church Is A Cult That was started by A Woman