It’s a difficult question.
Indeed it is such a difficult question that I will not attempt to give a concrete answer. I will let you know what I’ve done in the past, but that’s it.
It’s really a difficult question. Who should be able to see what each person gives to the church? Let’s look at six perspectives.
- The lead pastor and one layperson. This perspective argues that financial stewardship is a spiritual discipline, and the pastor should have access to individual giving to be able to see how the members are doing in this regard. The layperson, of course, is the person who actually keeps the records.
- One layperson who guides the pastor. The layperson again is the member keeping financial records. He or she is the only one who has access to giving records. But that person is able to share information with the pastor or other leaders as needed. For example, the financial secretary can inform the pastor or elders about potential future elders according to their giving patterns. I took this approach as a pastor. I did not have access to individual giving patterns, but our financial secretary would let me and other leaders know if a person should be eligible for a leadership role according to their stewardship in the church.
- One layperson only. In this example, only the financial secretary (or equivalent) has access to individual giving records. He or she does not provide any input that would reflect this information.
- A key group in the church. In some churches, this group is the elders. In some other churches, it is the nominating committee.
- A staff person other than the pastor and a layperson. The pastor is specifically precluded from individual giving visibility. Instead, another staff person, such as an associate or executive pastor, has access to the records along with the financial secretary.
- No church members. No church member can see the records. Instead, a non-member is recruited or hired to keep the records, but that person does not share the information with any church members.
There are certainly different options and different variations of these options. I can see some rationale in each of them. These are really difficult questions.
What is your church’s practice? What do you think of these six options? What do you think is the ideal option?
Posted on April 13, 2016
With nearly 40 years of ministry experience, Thom Rainer has spent a lifetime committed to the growth and health of local churches across North America.
More from Thom
159 Comments
When this post was first published, I couldn’t quite put my finger on why this issue is so emotional. But then it hit me, it’s jealousy. People are jealous for and about their money, the same way they are about their spouse. This is a cultural thing. As a kid I was always taught that it was impolite to ask others about their finances or what they paid for something. Not that long ago I mentioned in a group the amount for which we sold our house. My wife was very upset and felt as if she had been violated in some way by others knowing that information (If I had known it was going to upset her I wouldn’t have said anything). People react the same way to their giving. For many people, knowledge about their giving record is the equivalent of someone seeing their spouse naked.
This is an interesting topic: biblically and pragmatically. Without biblical context, church finances is a divisive subject.
Thom – I LOVE your insight and leadership perspectives to the local church. Would you be willing to post a follow-up to this that provides biblical context for the above options? Without the Bible weighing in on this, all our comments are based on opinions, fear, and/or experiences. All of which are dangerous apart from God’s Word. In fact, our personal views can even be pagan without biblical guidance. Thanks!!
I think everyone should check with your attorney. Knowledge of giving could open you to civil suits, and is a clear violation of professional ethics in the legal and accounting professions as a conflict of interest. I have been a CPA for 32 years, and I am appalled at the line of reasoning some give. I would not attend any of the pro-pastor should know churches period. The arguments are interesting, but totally opinion, background and based on false pretexts.
The church is not an accounting firm and church members are not clients. Furthermore, if you write your name on a check, someone is going to see it, whether it’s the usher taking up the offering, the deacon counting it before it’s put in the safe, or the secretary who records it the next day. I suppose you could arrange, either online or in some other way, for a third party to completely handle everything, but then how do you know if the third party is being honest and not ripping off the church? You may be above this, but most church members want to have a record of their giving kept by the church.
You may have misunderstood my post. My point is that the church leadership has absolutely no business knowing who gives what. To state, “the church is not an accounting firm” is bogus, and you miss the point. As to your later post, the whole statement is bogus and anecdotal about how your “feel” about, I do appreciate your call for Biblical support, but don’t use Peter with Annias and Saphira, that is total nonsense to apply that passage to this situation.
On what authority do you say the leadership has no business knowing who gives what? The only argument you’ve made to support this position is that the pastor might be sued if he looks at someone’s giving, which is absurd. Your basis for that argument is that you are CPA, hence the statement, “the church is not an accounting firm.” And finally, explain how Peter vs A&S doesn’t apply to this discussion. You say leadership should never know who gives what and yet Peter and the other apostles clearly knew who gave what. If the early church in the book of Acts is not our model for today, then what is?
If you want to go to a church that has worked out some sort of double blind system of finances, that’s fine, but I just don’t understand the raw emotion and vitriol toward those who are aren’t that jealous for their money.
Well said Christopher! The Old Testament priests knew who brought in what offering and what the quality of the gift was, as seen in Malachi and other places. Jesus also commanded that a gift was to be presented to the priests. Moses’ grandson was the “overseer” of the treasuries, and 2 Chr. 34:17 says overseers (LXX=episkopos) were in charge of the money. Pastors in the New Testament were also called overseers so it would naturally presume that it was the overseers who would oversee the collection.
Perhaps a Biblical basis for a “layperson” plus a “lead pastor”, or any of the combinations listed in 1-5, could be found with the appointment of the “Seven” in Acts 6:3. But where is ANY text to have an “independent party”, i.e., #6, a non-church member be in charge of knowing who gives what? The Apostle Paul would not even hear of non-believers litigating church matters, let alone having non-believers in charge of the regular giving than the church members or “overseers”!!!
Jesus even knew the percentage of the gifts and commended the widow for giving a greater percentage of what she had. Jesus praised Zacchaeus who proclaimed how much he would give. When Jesus said to not let one hand know what the other was giving, the clear context was the pride of the giver was what was at fault, not the knowledge of the leadership.
Likewise, Paul also knew Macedonia gave out of poverty and that Corinth had an abundance. A&S were not the only ones who laid gifts before the apostles, as noble Barnabas did as well and “all” of the church.
True, James condemns leadership who gives preference to the rich over the poor, as well they should be if by the pastors’ knowledge he gives preferential treatment, but James does not condemn the pastors’ knowledge of what is given or how much or what percentage. There is an abundance of scripture affirming the historic precedence for leadership to know who gives and how much. For one to dismiss as “nonsense” the clear teaching that Peter not only knew but had the right to question A&S. Luke even recorded it in the book of Acts how much Barnabas, A&S, and “all” the church gave.
True, we are to give as God leads, but 2 Cor. 8 actually clearly shows Paul knew who gave and how much and what proportion, as he even states in verse 20 that he and other leaders administrated it. He kept track that a year ago they were planning to give (verse 10). He was knowledgeable of proportionate giving and was gently rebuking them out of his knowledge they were not giving proportionately. His rebuke got less gentle in 2 Cor. 9.
I am not a head pastor, but speak as one who appeals to the Bible for judgment and decisions. Clearly some comments here affirm tradition over scripture (Matt. 15:3) and call scriptural teaching “nonsense.” To be “aghast” at scriptural teachings and claim they are being “ripped out of text” while not even attempting to provide any scriptural basis (in text or not), for one’s beliefs would lead Paul to say “I speak to your shame” (see 1 Cor. 6:5 to one who would threaten a lawsuit for Biblical obedience).
At the church I pastor, we have a counting team of volunteers who count and prepare deposit slips and a paid bookkeeper (non-member) who handles all the bill-paying and record keeping. It is possible for me to see what individuals give in our church management software, but I do not. There is no reason for that.
As far as qualifications for potential leadership, perhaps I am naive, but I just ask them. I ask about their philosophy of giving and to describe their practice of giving. If you are not even confident enough to believe their answer, then you probably should not consider them.
For all the hard core accountability people… (I’m just curious), do you apply the same tactic to verifying all the other qualifications of church leadership. Proof of a prayer life, a peek into their journals, proof of Bible study and memorization. I’m all for accountability, but there are plenty of people who are healthy givers who never open a Bible. Just a thought.
I have to say, I’m pretty surprised, disappointed and saddened at the root issue that seems to have surfaced from most of these comments: a lack of trust for Godly pastoral leadership and the waning accountability that church members are willing to give themselves to. It seems there may need to be a post that confronts these issues. I’m not sure where most of these individuals get the assumption that their obedience to God’s Word is contingent upon how trustworthy or righteous the pastor is. I’m appalled that so many have issues with a pastor seeing their giving records. In essence, they are saying their is a limit to how much oversight a pastor should have in a church members life and how much accountability they are willing to give themselves to. I personally am thankful that I have a pastor that is willing to confront me on ANY practice that I’m not aligning with God’s Word, including my financial support of the Church through tithe and offering. Since when does the sheep get to tell the shepherd how much oversight he can have? That’s like saying the pastor has no business knowing what websites I look at or what women I hang out with even though I’m married. If there is an area that you are unwilling to allow oversight and accountability in, there’s probably a reason why you don’t want someone to see that area. Accountability is always for growth and restoration, not condemnation and guilt.
And for those pastors that don’t want to see giving records because you feel you might become judgmental, I question whether or not you have the members best interest at heart. That comes with the assignment of being a pastor. You are sent people from all walks of life. If you are moved by the people and treat them differently based upon the secrets you know about them, then maybe you need to find another field to work in. Care for the members God sends properly by seeing people that need Jesus and discipling them to be more fully devoted followers of Him and His Kingdom.
If you are giving 10% then great, but you are not tithing. No one in the Bible is commanded to tithe except the OT Jew under the law. Giving in the church age is by grace and is between God and the giver. The root issue is a lack of rightly dividing the word of truth.
You’re comment is ridiculous and not even on point. No one here is going to be drawn into your agenda to try to prove whether tithing is biblical or not. If you’re not contributing to the actual post then don’t comment.
Again when one has no scriptural grounds to stand on they resort to personal attacks.
Well said, Mark! Well said.
Mark…. you live in a fantasy world.
You’re right. It’s quickly becoming a fantasy in churches to expect members to give themselves to true pastoral accountability and expect them to live a life honoring God’s Word.
It’s not distrust of leadership as much as it is people being jealous for their money.
Thank you, Mark
In almost nineteen years as serving as pastor, I have never seen or never asked to see what anyone is giving. I think that should be left up to certain members. In the church I pastor that group is mainly the trustees. Having served as chairman of the Finance Committee prior to becoming a pastor, it can be very disappointing when you know how certain people give. It would surprise most. That’s a surprise and disappointment that pastors don’t need.
A few of my own thoughts on this…
I respectfully disagree with most people here. If the pastor (or other key leader) is not aware of people’s giving, then they might allow people on the board or other key leadership position and not know they are not even financially committed to the church. Perhaps that person is a great “leader,” but if they cannot tithe appropriately, or at least in the way the church expects, then they should not be in a leadership position.
Too many people hide behind the concept of being anonymous and giving “cash.” If you knew that I knew which websites you were looking at late at night…your behavior might change for the better. It’s called accountability. Same goes for money. Peter knew how much Ananias and Sapphira gave in Acts 5…and dealt with it accordingly.
As a previous business administrator for a large church, I had access to everything financial. It was part of my job. What was most interesting to me in this topic is that those who gave 10% did not care that I knew they gave 10%. Those who gave less than 10%, were often bothered that our senior pastor knew it. This was not always the case, but very often.
I don’t think the church should be run like a corporation, but there are many business principles that the church could learn and use from business. What CEO of a corporation doesn’t know who their top revenue generators are?
Many believe that giving sacrificially is a spiritual gift. If this is true, it should be treated like other spiritual gifts. If a church needs people to serve or counsel or pray in certain areas, the pastor goes to those who exhibit those gifts and asks them to participate. In the same way, the pastor should be able to go to those with the gift of generosity and ask them to participate in specific giving needs.
I think we need to throw out the thought that a pastor might treat parishioners differently if they knew how much people gave. Don’t we do this anyway? We judge our own people based on their gifts and abilities and hurts and struggles and life circumstances. Because of their position and counseling, pastor often already know a great deal about their members. They know who is struggling in their marriage, who had an affair, whose son is now gay, who just got diagnosed with cancer, and who just lost their job. Many times, these life circumstances are not publicly shared….but the pastor knows! This is no different. If the pastor does not have the ability to judge a person fairly based on the circumstances, then I would argue he maybe shouldn’t be a pastor.
Lastly, I think we need to recognize that this is a very American idea of the pastor not knowing. As one who has traveled extensively, I find most other countries handle this very differently and most of the church leaders know who gives what.
“Too many people hide behind the concept of being anonymous and giving “cash.” If you knew that I knew which websites you were looking at late at night”
Once again people who don’t believe tithing is for the church or who give in a different way (i.e. cash versus check or credit card) are looked upon as being spiritually deficient in some way. For instance people who don’t give as others think they should are also accused of looking at bad websites late at night. Can you substantiate that statement or does that fall under false accusations? I don’t know how the Bible can be any more clear that giving is between the Lord and the giver. There’s nothing wrong with giving 10%, but you’re not tithing. Whether you give 10%, less than 10% or more than 10% is between you and God. Rather than raising straw men accusations open the Bible and give scriptural guidance and instruction.
Nathan… did you make that up? “it is a very American way”
Nathan, How do you know what 10% is of each parishioner’s income? Do you count the $100 a week that their adult kids send them to help them make ends meet or the $100 a week they draw from their savings account to pay for their meds? The church has no business judging. The giving needs to stay between the giver and God. What about those who tithe their time to balance what they are not able to give in pledges?
I had a pastor once who was against any members, including himself, to see any of the financials pertaining to giving of tithes, etc…..The church hired financial staff outside the church. His reasoning was that he, like all of us, are human, and he didn’t want to see what one person was giving when it came to money, because he didn’t want to make a mistake in perhaps judging that person. He believed that it was between God and that person. Also, he believed that God was in control, and that his role was to focus and lead the church members according to the Bible. He taught from the scriptures on tithing and giving, but he didn’t think it was his business to know what each person was giving.
The sad truth is, in many churches, the pastor and these days – his working wife, are likely in the top 5% of givers. They not only give because it is the right thing to do – but everyone would likely know if they did not give.
I’ve always felt if the “entire” church tithed, you could not hold the church back! Giving is a spiritual issue, and it is between you and God……but, not enough people give adequately – or certainly, their fair share.
I totally agree
James, what is fair share… this sounds like a political slogan?
Sounds like a lot of people have a lot to hide. What are you so afraid of?
Furthermore, I’d be willing to bet that many of the same people that want to hide their giving also demand an exact accounting of every penny the church spends, including the pastor’s salary.
How about this: as a pastor, if I’m not allowed to know how much you give then you’re not allowed to know how much I spent on the new sound system.
People aren’t trying to hide anything. What a person gives is between them and God (2 Corinthians 9: 6-7). A church should look at what was received in the last year and plan their budget accordingly for the next year. Just because some go overboard and “demand an exact accounting of every penny the church spends” is no reason to require everyone to disclose what they give.
Of course people are trying to hide their giving! That’s what this whole discussion is about: Hiding or concealing what you give from literally everyone in the church.
Furthermore, those verses in Two Corinthians say nothing about giving as being confidential or secret.
Its not that a lot of people want to hide what they give, but have you thought they may be embarrassed that they can’t give. Some are on set income and can barely make ends meet but they still want to give something. So, they put a few dollars in a envelope and turn it in hoping the entire congregation doesn’t know how much they are giving.
Our church follows approach #2. As the Treasurer (I am both a church member and a Deacon), I am the only person who has access to all of the giving records. I never share individual giving information with any pastor, Deacon or Elder. However, I do occasionally share giving patterns with the church officers (giving by quartiles, giving by age groups, average gift per household, changes in patterns from year to year, projected giving by various groups, etc.) which will help the officers understand giving, plan for next year’s budget, etc.
At the same time, because stewardship is such a critical component of worship (as well as simply supporting the work of the church), I do feel a responsibility to guide church members and officers in that regard. This is particularly true when I observe church officers who seem to not consider giving as an important part of workship. Such “guidance” has to be done out of brotherly love and done very, very carefully. In the end, an individual’s giving has to be left private between them and the Lord.
The clerk of our session, our financial administrator and I have access. Giving is never a prerequisite for holding an office, nor does it have impact on pastoral care. I feel as pastor I should be aware of the aspects of stewardship. It bears on my care and spiritual leadership of the church.