I consider myself a very blessed man in a number of ways. This blog has become one of my great blessings. One of the reasons I love this blog community is the variety of people who interact on it. There has been an increase in the number of people who aren’t Christians who comment on various posts. I want to share with you the perspective of one young woman on how she views Christians. These comments come directly from her comments on some of my posts. They have not been changed.
On Being Selfish, Not Really Interested in Others
I remember a rather outspoken evangelical Christian young woman I worked with – I’d just moved to town, and we went to a movie together. Each week she invited me to her church, and I didn’t want to offend her by saying “No thanks.” As it was, I had Buddhist activities one Sunday and I was mentoring a young girl two other Sundays, but that theoretically left a Sunday open. We only worked together for 3 months, and it never worked out. I went to a different job.
She showed up there one night, and jumped right to the church invite. No “Hey, how’ve you been? Haven’t seen you in a while!” Nope – just “Do you want to come to church with me this weekend?” Since I was on to her game, I decided to play. I said, “Sure, I’ll go to church with you, because I’m interested in seeing what you’re interested in. That’s what friends do, after all. And I’m sure you’ll want to come with me to a Buddhist meeting to see what I’m interested in, right?”
“Oh no!” she replied. “I just love the Lord so much!”
“Well,” I said, “then there’s no point in me going to your church because I’m not interested in either becoming a Christian or joining your church.” I never saw her again.
That’s how far Christian friendship extends – I’ve seen it over and over and over. Christians look at everyone else as if they’ve got targets painted on their foreheads. Nobody likes being hunted down or treated like someone else’s project. We don’t need to drop all our beliefs just to accept yours, and we don’t need to become more like you just to be acceptable people, worthy of being regarded as people instead of targets. Love does not seek to create clones of itself. Selfishness does.
On Being Self-centered and Judgmental
Keep your religious beliefs to yourself. If I have any interest in what you believe, I’ll ask you. And if I don’t ask you, then go right ahead and assume that your “witnessing” will be unwelcome. I’m sure that you like whatever you believe very much, and I’m very happy that you like it. However, just as your favorite flavor of ice cream is not necessarily going to be mine, I wish you would assume that I’m just as content with my own beliefs (or lack thereof) as you are with yours. Why not ask me first what *I* believe? Why not show an interest in what’s interesting to me instead of expecting me to always be interested in what YOU’RE interested in? Christians are so selfish and self-centered! Tell me – when was the last time an atheist rang your doorbell to tell you about his worldview? The reason the world hates Christians is because they behave badly, they’re rude, boorish, arrogant, conceited, full of themselves, ignorant, and judgmental. Go ahead – accuse me of being judgmental now. Doesn’t matter – I don’t claim to follow a belief system that has actual rules AGAINST being judgmental, so it’s *fine* for me to be!
On Being Unwilling to Develop True Friendships with Non-Christians
As a mother of young children in a homeschooling environment, we found ourselves surrounded by Christians. Of course, the kids would become friends and we moms would chat while they played. Without a single exception, this “acquaintanceship” only progressed to the point that I had to make it clear that no, I would not acceptjesusasmypersonalsavior, and no, I would not be attending their church. Then the Christians never called again, and I was left to explain to my sad children why their new friends wouldn’t be playing with them any more.
When my son was just 6, the boys down the street told him he was not allowed to play with them because he wasn’t a Christian. I went down to see what was going on (because my 4-yr-old daughter was going to go down there and teach those boys a lesson!) and I confirmed that what my son had reported was indeed what they’d said. And the mother of one was right out in the front yard, 25 feet from me, pretending to be very focused on trimming some plants. She never said a word.
Finally, the 6-yr-old girl across the street told my kids, ages 7 and 9, that if they weren’t Christians, they would be going to hell. She certainly learned the “Good News”. And you Christians wonder why we non-Christians avoid you?? HINT: It’s not because we’re intimidated by your awesomeness and are just sitting here, pining for you, wishing you would like us. We already know you don’t.
Your Response?
Frankly, I found these comments painfully true for many of us. Though my first reaction was one of defensiveness, the more I read them, the more I realize that this women has identified many of us Christians too clearly.
What do you think? What is your response?
Posted on June 15, 2013
With nearly 40 years of ministry experience, Thom Rainer has spent a lifetime committed to the growth and health of local churches across North America.
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302 Comments
“On Being Selfish, Not Really Interested in Others”
To this section I have some questions and concerns. ..
She stated that she was invited each week to a church event and that she did not want to tell the inviting party,”NO thanks” because she did not want to be rude.
Question 1
What did she say all the times that she did not say “No”?
~
Anything other than an honest answer is a mislead and also a lie, right?
Question 2
What is the real definition of the word friend?
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Is it fair for friends lie to each other in hopes that the one being lied to will finally get the hint or change their true agendas even when the agendas are not concealed?
Imagine growing up in a culture that has never heard of Jesus or Christianity. Imagine a conversation with a Christian missionary attempting to convert you to Christianity:
Christian: Hello, Friend. Do you have a moment?
You: Sure. What’s up?
Christian: I would like to share the Good News of Jesus Christ with you.
You: Who?
Christian: Jesus Christ. He is God’s Son who came to earth to die for our sins and to make it possible for us to live forever with God after we die. He loves you and wants to save you.
You: Save me? Which god are you talking about?
Christian: There is only one God, my friend.
You: Are you joking? There are many religions and many gods. So which god are you talking about?
Christian: The god of the Hebrews, Yahweh.
You: Never heard of him.
Christian: Yahweh is the one and only true God.
You: How do you know that?
(Conversation continued here):
http://www.lutherwasnotbornagain.com/2015/11/how-would-you-react-to-hearing.html
I am not Christian, but I am an enthusiastic participant in a personal growth program that emphasizes outreach and enrollment of others who have not as of yet participated in it.
I see myself making many of the same mistakes evangelical Christians make – valuing others only as potential “converts.”
It always interests me to notice that people who are intent on sharing their beliefs with me and not so intent on my sharing my beliefs with them. I have been guilty of that as well.
Mother Theresa saId, “I think God wants Christians to be good Christians and Hindus to be good Hindus.”
ALL of us – Christians, Buddhists, atheists, Jews, agnostics, Muslims – must learn to appreciate the person who has the belief FIRST, rather than the belief that the person has. Surely we can rise to the level of sophistication where we understand that there is more than one path to wisdom, understanding and ultimately, salvation.
So true – thank you!!!
It’s time for me to chime in as a life-long Jew with a few of my observations on Christianity and Evangelicals.
1. Modern day Jews rarely if ever refer to themselves as “the chosen people”. Chosen for what? – suffering and persecution? Most of us are very uncomfortable with this Christian label.
2. Every Christian I’ve ever met tells me they have an obligation to tell me about Jesus Christ. They say I only need to hear the message once, but with hundreds of them telling me “just once’ I’ve actually heard the message hundreds of times in my life. This sanctioned and encouraged practice is oppressive and insensitive to my beliefs.
3. I just don’t get the Christian love-hate relationship with Jews and Israel. If we are so special in G-d’s eyes why do we supposedly go to hell if we do not accept Jesus as G-d and convert to Christianity. Seems you only love us to help fulfill your selfish goals.
4. Practice what you preach by respecting others religions or rights to have no religion at all. Your way is not the only way. Stop being elitists.
5. Dogma is outdated. Science shows that everything is up for interpretation and healthy questioning including your religion. Dogma is the tool of a few to control the masses. To say that dogmatic belief is the only way is just a further example of this attempt to control others.
6. These problems stem from self-serving leadership and the weakness of others who seek solace from life’s challenges by hiding behind faith and avoiding taking responsibility for their actions.
7. Teach the truth and admit the crimes the church has committed against humanity. Don’t pray for my salvation – pray for your own. There is historic blood on your hands. Google: “Crusades” and “Spanish Inquisition” as a starting point.
8. Its great to travel the world helping people, but just do it to provide help. Don’t turn it into a Christian commercial or proselytising opportunity. “Evangelize” is defined as an attempt to “proselytize”.
9. Stop the fighting among your different sects. it’s just too reminiscent of the battle between the Shia and Sunni Muslins. It causes distrust and elitism and goes against the teachings of Jesus Christ.
10. Please stop telling me what the Torah means. I don’t interpret the New Testament for you based on my beliefs. I expect the same respect.
I do not intent to offend anyone here, just to provide a different perspective that may cause some Christians to self-examine behaviors that often alienate other religions.
I agree with these people’s views on Christians. I am a Christian too, but I can’t stand other Christians. I also find them to be annoying and arrogant.
I am ‘accosted’ by evangelicals all the time. The first question they ask is ‘Are you a Christian’. A question I find rude and intrusive coming from a total stranger,and frankly,none of their business.
I have my own beliefs and they have served me well,for a long time.
I do not wear my religion on my sleeve,nor do I identify myself by my religion.
“Hi I’m Dave and I am an Episcopalian’ or some such nonsense.
My beliefs are just that. MINE. It is between me and the God who loves me,no matter how many times I have been ‘born.’
My response to these persistent people is simple. I respect you for your beliefs,please extend the same courtesy to me.
Under no circumstance will you tell me I am wrong,or I am going to hell,just because i do not believe as you do. Judgment of a persons life is Gods job,and He needs no help from mere mortals.
Just as what I do for a living is what i do,not who I am,wha I believe is just that.
Personally,I do not believe that God is religious at all. If He was,there would be only one religion,HIS and He would allow no other.
True, and I’m sorry. We don’t do a very good job.
I couldn’t agree more with this woman’s experiences. I live in the south and have found it extremely difficult to form true bonds with friends due to their religious beliefs. I do not care what another believes or does not believe, however I have found that many of the Christian faith only want to be friends with other Christians. I’m afraid to tell people that I do not share the same beliefs because I know I will suddenly become their new project, I will be seen as someone who needs to be saved. I want to be accepted for who I am not who they want me to be. Something very important to realize is a person’s religion does not determine whether they know right from wrong, have morals, and/or are capable of loving others selflessly. I understand that there is pressure on Christians to witness to others and many are told that if they love someone they should try their hardest help that person to find Jesus. I feel isolated and saddened that I cannot just be accepted for who I am; a loving and good person.
I’ve definitely felt similarly, Jocelyn. What is affirming, nurturing, and healing is to be embraced by another person. Not just accepting – that could be grudgingly – but embraced in all your individuality, celebrated for being YOU. How rare “unconditional positive regard” is – the fact that one can appreciate and enjoy another person’s company without putting any expectations upon it, without conditions, without entertaining the hope that the other person will change in some way. The only Christian I’ve experienced that from is one who is not involved in any church; her beliefs are simply that, and rarely come up in conversation. We have a lot of other things in common that leave us with plenty to talk about, and we just *like* each other! One sure-fire indicator that someone I’ve just met will turn out to be unpleasant and judgmental is if they ask me what church I belong to very early in our acquaintance. I’m an atheist, you see.
I’m not a Christian. I am interested in learning about many religions. Some people like finding God in their own way. It feels right for them. I take comparative religions and its awesome. Most Christians are nice and they invite me a lot to their services. Though like the lady said, I don’t think they would go to something I would be interested in.
Religion kinda seems like race. Her story was just like experiencing racism. But instead of the color of their skin it was a their religious background. Its rather sad really. As a child I went to church. But I grew up to want to learn more. My mom to this day says she wishes we grew up with a religion. I’m glad I didnt. I feel God all the time. What is to say the path Im walking is wrong? I accept all people and their background. I met wonderful Christians and I met very judgmental Christians. But religion aside there always be judgmental people. Im sorry that lady met a not so friendly Christian. That woman made her feel upset about a religion as a whole.
I am not apart of any religion. But I feel Him and I believe. I think I’m a rather nice person too. I don’t think I’m going to hell. I choose my own path. And see what I believe God is; in my dog, my friends, my family, in nature, in myself. That ultimate feeling of an unconditional love. You know what I mean. I know what it is. Why can’t it be that simple?
“Not all who wander is lost.”
While I liked almost all your post, Paris, I take issue with this bit:
“Im sorry that lady met a not so friendly Christian. That woman made her feel upset about a religion as a whole.”
I am the person who wrote those comments up top. This was not my ONLY bad experience with Christians – no one has asked me to list them all. I outgrew God and Jesus shortly after I outgrew Santa Claus; it appears that age 11 is a common age where children realize they don’t believe in gods. I simply shared those anecdotes because I felt they demonstrated major problems with how Christians interact with others. There’s abundant disrespect and selfishness on part of the Christian – everyone else is supposed to want to join the Christian in the activities the Christian likes, but the Christian won’t reciprocate. What sort of relationship involves no reciprocation??
Christians are overwhelmingly exclusive, condescending, disdainful, sneering, preening, self-important, disrespectful, and demonstrate an unearned superiority complex. Just look at what’s going on politically, where Christians think that “religion” should provide them with the RIGHT to discriminate against others! Christians believe THEY should be deciding which rights which minority groups should have access to, and believe THEY should be the ones to rule on which rights these groups’ members should be denied.
No. It was not “a not so friendly Christian” who “made me upset about a religion as a whole.” I’d already been a non-Christian for a quarter of a century, thank you very much. And I find that conclusion of yours deeply offensive, judgmental, trivializing, and disrespectful. For all your nicey-nice pronouncements, you don’t sound any nicer than those ugly Christians, frankly. The disdain and dismissiveness have a way of peeking out, no matter how appealing you attempt to make yourself sound.
Correct.
The root of all so-called cultural wars against Christians lies in their doctrine: if you don’t believe in Yahweh revealed in Jesus, you will suffer for eternity.
I feel deeply insulted when someone who acts nice in front of me thinks that I deserve something afterlife torture behind my back simply for the fact that I don’t share his religious belief.
This is a mindset of tribalism. Christians and Muslims are the ones with this mindset.
Jesus has been so misrepresented by “Christianity” today that it is no wonder why so many are not into what they perceive to be Christianity. The Gospel of Jesus is so very simple. It is all about love, not condemnation. Many have accepted Jesus as a means to make it to heaven. Jesus thought so much of us, that he voluntarily laid down his life for us. Yet, his main purpose in doing so was not to get us to heaven, but to open the door to having a relationship with our Father, God. If a person accepted Jesus just to make it to heaven, they missed the mark so badly. No wonder we are not seeing changed lives. Jesus died and rose again so that we might have life today, through our relationship with our Father.
He came so that we might become love and compassion for others. If you are not seeing that in people who confess to be Christian, I understand why you do not want to walk with God. It is only because you do not know him. The time is coming and we are at the door, when Jesus will once again, show the world why he came. If I seek God for my “blessings” than I am not walking in the light. However, if I seek God so I might be a blessing to others, than I am. Ask Jesus to reveal Himself to you. Seek so that you might find Him. He is not here to condemn but to give LIFE. It is such a simple gospel, yet so many miss it. If you were to read the New Testament, you will see the love and compassion of Jesus toward the common man. He healed, he set free the tormented and he raised the dead. But above all, HE LOVED. That is it…….
This article is great, it’s lovely to see that people are open to being criticized. Honestly, no offence, but non-Christians are lost souls in need of saving (even if that is your belief). Actions speak loader than words and I can completely relate to her article. There is a lady at work, pushing the Christian views down my throat the whole time, almost whispering to sound more “saintly”.
Eventually I grew so sick of listening to her religious stories, I told her directly that I’m interested in getting to know her and care about her, and I’m not interested in what her church does.
This was probably the most honest thing I’ve ever said to an outspoken Christian. And it would be great if all Christians remind themselves of it….non-Christians want to get to know you and your identity, not what your church says.
Sorry, typo: Non-Christians AREN’T lost souls…..
The truth is that America is not a christian nation. Just like Rome there are many beliefs under one roof. Christians have deluded themselves by thinking their passing dominance here was due to their love of god. They don’t have a clue about how they got that power by murdering, cheating, and disenfranchising those who didn’t share their religious beliefs. Or how many of their ‘converts’ just went along to fit in to the mainstream culture. That’s now changing. If christianity is to survive they have to give up their arrogance and demonstrate the positive values they preach. No more free ride. No more threats of a ridiculous hell.
Thank you for addressing this issue. I guess what I’d like to say is that as a person who is not a Christian, I learn more by watching. Christians do not need to witness or tell us about the good words of their god. They need to show us “good works.” I once worked side by side with a woman who was truly friendly. I liked being around her because she treated everyone with warmth and dignity. Her open smile and warm regard for everyone made her an approachable person. I liked the way she talked about her family, her children and mate. She never complained about them but spoke of them in loving terms. She wasn’t afraid to look into my eyes and meet me wherever I was at that moment, be that a moment of gladness or a moment of sorrow and pain. I liked what she saw in me. I felt good when I was with her. This made me curious about her and one day, I asked, “Martha, I always feel so good when I’m with you. What’s your secret?” And then she told me about her relationship with Christ. She had not mentioned being a Christian to me before this, yet what I felt when I was with her found its way into my heart. This woman was so very strong in her relationship with Christ that she did not need to speak his name or threaten hell and damnation. No, the Love that is Christ flowed into everything she did. I think that when we need to depend on the “outside” as contrast to what we think we are, and fight against it in order to become who we want to be, we have missed the mark. Martha did not need to separate herself from “others” in order to know the love of Christ. Thank you.
I have to say that i am disgusted with the post. I cannot believe what i have just read. You people have got nothing to do with your lives and decide to go and bag the Christians. you should all be ashamed with yourselves, go bag your own relgion. Not all christians are bad, some of them are better than all you people.
Let me get this straight. You’re being judgemental to a lady who wrote about factual events where Christians were depicted as not being perfect saints as they claim to be.
You sound a whole lot like the Christian woman who kept on pruning her garden when the kids were hurting the boy’s feelings.